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47 Years Ago today: The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald

47 Years Ago today: The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald

Forty-seven years ago today, the Edmund Fitzgerald was caught in the grip of a deadly storm on Lake Superior.

 

Investigators would later say the Mighty Fitz’s course had put her in the “worst possible place” amid the monstrous waves of that November gale.

 

When she sank with all 29 souls aboard on Nov. 10, 1975, the big freighter’s story quickly became the Great Lake’s most well-known shipwreck.

Her demise was shared around the world in Gordon Lightfoot’s song “The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald,” while the harrowing details of the ore carrier’s last journey became part of mariner lore.

Today, we remember the lives lost. And we honor the amazing bravery of those who risked their own lives to search for a crew who would never be rescued.

We’re highlighting a collection of photos that have been shared by our friends at the Great Lakes Shipwreck Museum, the Associated Press, the U.S. Coast Guard, and other ship enthusiasts.

We’ve included some interesting facts about the Fitzgerald’s work history as a stellar cargo hauler, and some of the heartbreaking conversations that marked her final hours.

To the Mighty Fitz, we offer the formal salute: 3 longs and 2 shorts.

RELATED: 2022 Edmund Fitzgerald Memorial Event: The Great Lakes Shipwreck Museum at Whitefish Point in the Upper Peninsula will be offering a livestream memorial service at 7 p.m. on Thursday, Nov. 10. See the streaming details here.

Part 1: The Early Days

Edmund Fitzgerald

The Edmund Fitzgerald launch at Great Lakes Engineering Works on June 7, 1958.

Edmund Fitzgerald

Edmund Fitzgerald seen from the Ambassador Bridge. In this photo, the vessel is underway (downbound) on the Detroit River in 1960.

Edmund Fitzgerald

The Edmund Fitzgerald under construction.

Edmund Fitzgerald

The Edmund Fitzgerald was built at the Great Lakes Engineering Works in River Rouge and launched in 1958.

Part 2: The Day of the Storm

CONVERSATION AT 3:30 P.M. ON NOV. 10, 1975

At 3:30 p.m. The Fitzgerald’s captain, Ernest McSorley, calls the nearby freighter Aurthur M. Anderson’s captain, Jesse Cooper, to report damage and say his ship would slow to let the Anderson catch up. Minutes later, the U.S. Coast Guard issues directions for all ships to find safe anchorage because the Soo Locks have been closed.

McSorley: “Anderson, this is the Fitzgerald. I have sustained some topside damage. I have a fence rail laid down, two vents lost or damaged, and a list. I’m checking down. Will you stay by me til I get to Whitefish?”

Cooper: “Charlie on that Fitzgerald. Do you have your pumps going?”

McSorley: “Yes, both of them.”

Arthur M. Anderson

The Arthur M. Anderson ore carrier takes on a load of taconite Oct. 25, 2005 in Duluth, Minn. The Anderson was called upon to help search for the ill-fated Edmund Fitzgerald in rough Lake Superior waters in 1975. The Fitzgerald, an ore carrier, sank Nov. 10, 1975. (AP Photo/Jim Mone)AP

Edmund Fitzgerald

This 1976 underwater photo shows a close up of the pilot house of the freighter Edmund Fitzgerald after it sank at the bottom of Lake Superior on Nov. 10, 1975. The freighter split in two when it was caught in a severe storm and sank with its load of iron ore and crew of 29 men. (AP Photo)ASSOCIATED PRESS

This underwater photo of the sunken SS Edmund Fitzgerald was taken by an unmanned submersible robot, as a research team investigates the wreck site 17 miles northwest of Whitefish Point, Mich., on August 24, 1989. The 729-foot ore freighter sunk on November 23, 1975, during a severe storm, taking its load of iron and the crew of 29 men to the bottom of the Lake Superior. (AP Photo)ASSOCIATED PRESS

Edmund Fitzgerald

An underwater camera gives a view into the pilot house of the wrecked Great Lakes ore carrier Edmund Fitzgerald. The massive ship sank in a severe storm on Lake Superior Nov. 10, 1975, killing all 29 aboard. (AP Photo/U.S. Coast Guard)AP

 

CONVERSATION AT 5:30 P.M. ON NOV. 10, 1975

At 5:30 p.m., the Fitzgerald crew is advised by Swedish ship Avafors the Whitefish Point beacon and light are disabled by power failure.

Avafors: “Fitzgerald, this is the Avafors. I have the Whitefish light now but still am receiving no beacon. Over.”

Fitzgerald: “I’m very glad to hear it.”

Avafors: “The wind is really howling down here. What are the conditions where you are?”

Fitzgerald: (Undiscernable shouts overheard) “DON’T LET NOBODY ON DECK!”

Avafors: “What’s that, Fitzgerald? Unclear. Over.”

Fitzgerald: “I have a bad list, lost both radars. And am taking heavy seas over the deck. One of the worst seas I’ve ever been in.”

Avafors: “If I’m correct, you have two radars.”

Fitzgerald: “They’re both gone.”

Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald

 

Image of the Edmund Fitzgerald shipwreck taken during a dive in 1995 to recover the ship's bell.

 

Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald

 

Image of the Edmund Fitzgerald shipwreck taken during a dive in 1995 to recover the ship's bell. The ship sank in a storm off Whitefish Point in Lake Superior on Nov. 10, 1975.

 

Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald

 

Image of the Edmund Fitzgerald shipwreck taken during a dive in 1995 to recover the ship's bell.

 

Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald

 

Image of the Edmund Fitzgerald shipwreck taken during a dive in 1995 to recover the ship's bell. The ship sank in a storm off Whitefish Point in Lake Superior on Nov. 10, 1975

 

FINAL CONVERSATION ON NOV. 10, 1975

At 7:10 p.m. the Anderson calls the Fitzgerald with navigation instructions. The Anderson is about 10 miles behind the doomed freighter.

Anderson: “Fitzgerald, this is the Anderson. Have you checked down?”

Fitzgerald: “Yes we have.”

Anderson: “Fitzgerald, we are about 10 miles behind you, and gaining about 1 1/2 miles per hour. Fitzgerald, there is a target 19 miles ahead of us. So the target would be 9 miles on ahead of you.”

Fitzgerald: “Well, am I going to clear?”

Anderson: “Yes. He is going to pass to the west of you.”

Fitzgerald: “Well, fine.”

Anderson: “By the way, Fitzgerald, how are you making out with your problem?”

Fitzgerald: “We are holding our own.”

Anderson: “Okay, fine. I’ll be talking to you later.”

At 7:15 p.m. the Fitzgerald disappears from the Anderson’s radar. More than an hour later, the Coast Guard begins an active search. The 29 crew members aboard all perish.

Part 3: Pieces Recovered, Dives to the Wreck Site

Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald

 

Life vests recovered after the Edmund Fitzgerald sank.

 

Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald

 

The No. 2 lifeboat that was recovered after the Edmund Fitzgerald sank.

 

Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald

 

An oil-splattered life ring from the Edmund Fitzgerald was among the limited debris recovered after the sinking.

 

 

Coast Guard officers on a Board of Inquiry inspected life rings that were recovered from the ore carrier Edmund Fitzgerald, which sank in stormy weather in Lake Superior on Nov. 10, 1975. All 29 crewmen aboard perished and did not get a chance to use any of the lifesaving equipment. Inspection took place at Cleveland Harbor on Sunday, Nov. 24, 1975, and officers donned white coveralls because equipment was covered with oil. (AP Photo/GE)AP

 

Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald

 

The Edmund Fitzgerald's sounding board, which was later found spilt in two and covered in oil. It was part of the limited amount of debris discovered after the sinking.

 

Edmund Fitzgerald Fast Facts

 

The Edmund Fitzgerald's bell now is displayed at the Great Lakes Shipwreck Museum at Whitefish Point. Canadian explorer Joseph MacInnis led a 1995 expedition to recover it. This quest gave the families of the lost crew members a tangible memorial.

 

Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald

 

The U.S. Navy remotely operated vehicle CURV-III was brought in to survey the Edmund Fitzgerald wreckage in spring 1976.

 

Edmund Fitzgerald

 

A helicopter, aiding in the search for the missing Str. Edmund Fitzgerald lost in severe night in Whitefish Bay on Lake Superior just north of Sault Ste. Marie, Michigan, is fueled at a landing pad at Whitefish Point on Tuesday on Nov. 12, 1975. The Fitzgerald went down with a crowd of 29 while carrying about 26,000 tons of taconite pellets. (AP Photo/JCH)ASSOCIATED PRESS

 

Edmund Fitzgerald

 

A life raft from the SS Edmund Fitzgerald is examined by a U.S. Coast Guard on the dock in Sault Ste. Marie, Mich., Tuesday afternoon, Nov. 12, 1975. The raft was brought ashore from the steamer Roger Blough, which picked the raft from Whitefish Bay where the Fitzgerald sank Nov. 10. (AP Photo)

 

Edmund Fitzgerald Fast Facts

 

When the U.S. Coast Guard surveyed the Edmund Fitzgerald's wreck site in 1976, it used a U.S. Navy submersible to get video of the ship's two halves on the lake bottom, covered in mud. Artist sketches made from this video are included in the official Marine Casualty Report issued in 1977.

 

Edmund Fitzgerald Fast Facts

 

Of the 7,000 shipwrecks recorded in The Great Lakes, only 5 percent of them happened in Lake Superior.

 

 Gordon Lightfoot Song: "The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald"

Comments   

# Alternate Theoryscrarjg 2022-11-11 22:47
Hey! Don't shoot the messenger...just another aspect and a very interesting one at that! Give it a go!:

http://mileswmathis.com/lightfoot.pdf
-1 # RE: Alternate Theorymjc 2022-11-13 13:49
Quoting scrarjg:
Hey! Don't shoot the messenger...just another aspect and a very interesting one at that! Give it a go!:

http://mileswmathis.com/lightfoot.pdf

So....the Fitzgerald sinking was fake.
Just like 9/11 was fake, the Apollo landings were fake, the holocaust was fake, and.......the earth is flat.

Ohhhhh.....bullshit.


But Superior does never give up her dead.

Behold.....Old Whitey....

http://weekinweird.com/2016/11/27/old-whitey-preserved-corpse-kamloops/
"Meet Old Whitey, the Preserved Corpse of the SS Kamloops, Lake Superior’s Most Haunted Shipwreck"

https://www.astonishinglegends.com/astonishing-legends/2020/10/21/old-whitey
"OLD WHITEY....It is said that divers who visit the wreck sight say he has a tendency to float up behind divers and scare them. Other times, he appears curious and even follows divers around as they search the ship. It is believed this spirit is connected to his incredibly well-preserved corpse, which awaits visitors in the engine room. He is typically known as Old Whitey, but you may hear some call him, affentionately, grandpa. He is called Old Whitey, though, because his corpse is incredibly white"
# RE: Alternate Theory389rivka@gmail.com 2022-11-12 00:20
Fascinating, timely info. Just when you thought there was something solid and true…
Beyond the Matrix…


After reading this pdf I realized tptb told us in the first line of the song….

The - legend - lives on ….

It’s a legend. Like George Washington chopping the cherry tree; Daniel Boone killing a bear with his bare hands; Abe Lincoln teaching himself to be a lawyer, reading by candlelight ; and, maybe, John -Fitzgerald- Kennedy and his PT 109 saga. Hmm
+1 # RE: 47 Years Ago today: The Wreck of the Edmund FitzgeraldThe Deplorable Renegade 2022-11-11 11:38
I was in Miami when this tragedy took place. I don’t normally go for folk music but I did like the song. I actually respected Lightfoot for recording this song and telling the story.
+1 # The Story Tellericanseeclearly 2022-11-11 07:04
Great articlle and pictures.
-2 # Ukranium LithiumOccamsRazor 2022-11-11 01:38
Yep Hal, the ship is sinking fast.

Interesting Take on Russia / US interest in Ukraine:
https://youtu.be/mn_VRvFWL4o?t=655
+2 # The fact that they were not able to use the safety equipment to save their lives reminds me of a personal tragedyMan of the Atom 2022-11-10 23:20
My half brother spent 20 years in USAF. He had a wife and two children and had tours of duty in Germany, Bermuda, Alaska, and Vietnam - at least two and maybe three in that last one. He told me had seen all those John Wayne movies and thought he knew what war would be like! He didn't have to but he volunteered to go on foot patrols in the jungle with the US army. He told me several harrowing tales and the one I can tell on this forum is as follows. He and an "ARVN" (Army of [South] Vietnam) radio man were with a group of ARVN soldiers on the side of a valley when they all got caught in an ambush. He and a few others (probably another American, maybe an "advisor") including the radio man became separated from the main platoon. They called in an air strike to suppress the fire. Some helicopters came and started shooting - at the wrong people. Evidently before it could be called off, the main group of ARVN soldiers in the separated platoon did what they did to save their lives - they shot down the American helicopters! This is War! It is not like the movies.

About the personal tragedy: he was out of the Service and sometimes flying an ultralight airplane. He had parachutes on the plane and on his seat but when he crashed in 1995 neither of them fully deployed and he was killed instantly on impact.
-1 # PoseidonPSKYWAY 2022-11-10 21:49
https://warnews247-gr.translate.goog/synagermos-stis-ipa-rosika-ypovrychia-proetoimazontai-gia-dokimi-tis-pyrinikis-ypertorpilis-poseidon/?_x_tr_sl=el&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en
+2 # Kherson - the battle beginscarlireland34@gmail.com 2022-11-10 18:48
https://warnews247.gr/to-thriler-xekina-o-oukranikos-stratos-bainei-stin-poli-tis-chersonas-kai-i-rosia-etoimazei-katafygia-se-oli-tin-chora-epivevaiosi-warnews247/

Ukrainians didn't believe it: "There are up to 50,000 Russian soldiers there"

“Currently, there are between 30,000 and 50,000 Russian soldiers in Kherson and its surroundings. They are not going to back down."

This was stated a few hours ago by the representative of the Main Intelligence Directorate of the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine, Vadym Skibitsky, in an interview with the Italian edition of La Repubblica

The Ukrainian military intelligence spokesman said he believed Russian authorities had begun the evacuation of the civilian population to facilitate the conduct of hostilities.
+2 # Polish Generalcarlireland34@gmail.com 2022-11-10 18:50
What did the Polish general say?

Polish general Mieczysław Benek does not believe in the withdrawal of Russian troops from Kherson. He believes that Russia is luring the Armed Forces of Ukraine into a trap.

"We're dealing with a simulated retreat, everything looks very suspicious, " Benek said.

The general believes that a possible scenario is a partial retreat and the setting of "traps" - mines and hidden firing positions.

The question is whether they will fall for this trick," summed up the Polish general.
+1 # Bloomberg: Russia Repairs and Cleans Cold War Shelterscarlireland34@gmail.com 2022-11-10 18:51
Meanwhile, according to Bloomberg, shelters across Russia are coming back to life after more than three decades of neglect since the end of the Cold War.

WarNews247 had revealed this information a long time ago.

Government officials are quietly inspecting basements and other protected facilities, while repairing and cleaning spaces that have not been used since the Soviet era, according to people familiar with the procedures.

The moves are part of a broader push by Russian authorities to ensure that its civil defense infrastructure is ready in the event of a wider conflict, people familiar with the situation told Bloomberg on condition of anonymity.
-3 # Old newsoldschool 2022-11-10 19:19
.
+2 # No. A 47 Year Old Shipwreck Is Old NewsKill Roy 2022-11-10 20:06
.
-2 # RE: No. A 47 Year Old Shipwreck Is Old Newsoldschool 2022-11-10 20:52
I was not commenting to the Ship story. I was commenting to "shelters across Russia are coming back to life after more than three decades of neglect since the end of the Cold War." In which Hal reported on several days ago.
+1 # Classicadino44 2022-11-10 18:36
I don't know how soon he came out with this song but was stationed at Camp Pendleton in 75 when it happened and pretty sure I heard it while there. Gordon wasn't my favorite but he was good and I reverenced this song/story. It is done in a manner that tells the story and evokes respect, maybe a prayer. One of my favorites and possibly all time favorite. Thank you Hal
# My earlier days of SCUBA we dove several wrecks in Superior ...NHydg 2022-11-10 18:26
The water in the summer is so cold it is numbing to stand in the shallow water. First thoughts are that you can't imagine anything being that cold and still liquid.
Thank goodness for Dry Suits .....that is the only way to do it for a full tank of air. One group of divers dove on the Emperor a Canadian ship ....it was in deeper waters so many divers did not venture that dive .......these divers found sailors still on that ship ....exposed parts of those bodies were decomposed from the fish , however the covered parts were well preserved.
Lake Superior is quite clear .....many wrecks can be seen from the surface.
# RE: 47 Years Ago today: The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgeraldmjc 2022-11-10 17:53
I do remember the song from when I was a child....but not the news of the accident. It may have been much bigger news in the midwest. I was not living there at the time.

But now....who hasn't heard of the Edmund Fitzgerald....because of Gordon Lightfoot.


If you've never heard Gordon Lightfoot sing 'The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald'......there's still time:

https://gordonlightfoot.com/GordonLightfootTourSchedule.asp


He's still touring......saw him live 12 or so years ago at Riverbend.
# Some thoughts on thisdave1963 2022-11-10 17:07
I remember the first time I heard the story of the Edmund Fitzgerald. It was in summer of '78 and I was a teenager visiting my great aunt and extended family in West Virginia. Gordon Lightfoot's song cam up on her ancient cabinet stereo. I listened, spellbound. Besides drinking an annual toast to the crew and the ship... and the lake, about all I can do in respect is to the best I can year round to recycle any scrap metal my business generates or comes upon. I tell my workers (all young guys) that men die to bring us metal. Then I tell them about these events. They almost listen respectively and then become pretty vigilant about metal. I get the feeling that most of them had never thought about these things.

Thanks Hal for devoting some time and space to this.
-2 # Slight editdave1963 2022-11-10 17:11
I remember the first time I heard the story of the Edmund Fitzgerald. It was in summer of '78 and I was a teenager visiting my great aunt and extended family in West Virginia. Gordon Lightfoot's song came up on her ancient cabinet stereo. I listened, spellbound. Besides drinking an annual toast to the crew and the ship... and the lake, about all I can do in respect is to do the best I can year round to recycle any scrap metal my business generates or comes upon. I tell my workers (all young guys) that men die to bring us metal. Then I tell them about these events. They almost ALWAYS listen respectively and then become pretty vigilant about recycling metal. I get the feeling that most of them have never thought about these things.

Thanks Hal for devoting some time and space to this.
+3 # RE: 47 Years Ago today: The Wreck of the Edmund FitzgeraldMaid4theLamb64 2022-11-10 16:26
My husband's uncle was on board that ship, he was a part of the crew, and of course unfortunately lost his life. A very sad day.
# OoopsMaid4theLamb64 2022-11-10 16:36
Sorry, meant to say my husband's sister-in-law's uncle. She and her uncle, both from Cleveland.
+8 # The Edmund FitzgeraldLassieLou 2022-11-10 15:28
I had just turned 14,and lived in the lower peninsula of Michigan,EVERYBODY just stopped,some prayed,some cried,some shook their heads in dismay....I don't think there was a single person in the state of Michigan (and maybe the whole U.S.) that wasn't looking/thinking pf the E.F.
Some years later I lived on the banks of Lake Superior ...beautiful lake,but she's a cold,nasty,unforgiving bitch of a lake. Moved after only a few months.
R.I.P. to a heroic Captain & crew..........................
+1 # WWIIIVercinge 2022-11-10 14:45
The Trump and Biden administrations include more than 30% Jews while Jews represent less than 2% of the 333 millions american population.

https://numidia-liberum.blogspot.com/2022/11/lage-dor-des-juifs-touche-t-il-sa-fin.html#more
# Congress, Senatecarlireland34@gmail.com 2022-11-10 15:17
What is the percentage fo "Friends of Israel" ?
89
Which is why you give Israel $10 millions a DAY.
-9 # I expect something at G20meanize1962 2022-11-10 14:19
I expect something is involved with his whole clan of folks and they're not getting along that well he's not happy with any of them I'm thinking o I'm thinking really deep thought about it if this world were living in is real and everything's is realreal putin not going to the g20 I expect a place to be shelled with cruise missiles conventional I think he's going to try to Target everybody and hit everybody I really think he's going to really try it seriously and if he don't get everybody and a certain individuals left alive but then he will use nuclear weapons and finish the job that's my prediction I'm predicted that Putin
-1 # Shut up, you assJessiebeaner 2022-11-10 14:44
Have some respect for the MEN who died on this boat.
NOBODY GIVES A SHIT ABOUT YOU OR WHAT YOU THINK.
GO AWAY
# watch your wordsBoss 2022-11-11 06:29
and just skip over comments that offend you.
+9 # RE: 47 Years Ago today: The Wreck of the Edmund FitzgeraldFalcon9h 2022-11-10 13:31
Wow, Hal, you did good! I never get tired of that song. Shipwrecks are very emotional. I've watched videos, looked at websites but this is the first place I've ever seen the transcript. I can't imagine breaking up and sinking so fast that you wouldn't even have time to grab a life preserver.
Many thanks for this!

About the same place the country is in right now. Down at the head with a 30 deg. list...
+2 # I remember this like it was yesterdayJessiebeaner 2022-11-10 14:46
I was in college and had a good friend, an engineer, who worked the boats. We stayed up glued to the news. It was heartbreaking. This lake is fierce!
+2 # From Nov 10, 1975Jessiebeaner 2022-11-10 15:02
https://www.weather.gov/mqt/fitz_galesa

Note the statement at the end re. wave heights.
# Wave height knownJessiebeaner 2022-11-10 15:04
https://www.weather.gov/apx/fitzgerald
+1 # Off topic - Khersoncarlireland34@gmail.com 2022-11-10 12:58
It occurred to me that Russia could invite Ukraine into Kherson - then flood it by opening some kind of emergency gates or pipes in the dams.

Does anyone know if that is possible ?

https://www.newsy.com/stories/will-russia-fight-flee-or-flood-kherson/

Fight, flee or flood? Kherson's fate could be soon decided, as western military analysts predict Ukraine will try to retake the city before winter, just weeks away.
+3 # It's possible, but not likely, imhoTigerTiger 2022-11-10 13:14
If you look at Russia's approach to this whole affair, it has been remarkably restrained. Only recently did they even start bombing energy infrastructure, and that was only after they realized that the war would be dragged out much longer by the fact that Ukraine is getting propped up by NATO. Even then it wasn't carpet bombing, but precision strikes only on the relevant facilities, as far as I can tell anyway. Russia seems to regard this as a "brother war", and as such they aren't interested in wholesale destruction of these places that they are trying to save from the neonazis.

Everything I have seen Putin do, tells me that he wouldn't just go and do a wholesale destruction act like flooding the region and causing mass casualties. It might get them some enemy deaths, but I think it would really start to lose Putin's moral high ground that he has been working so hard to maintain. Look at his speeches and announcements, every time he talks he is trying to justify why they are doing what they are doing, and explaining that they are fighting "the West", etc - he obviously values having that moral high ground. Opening a dam would be against everything he has been doing up to now.

I wouldn't put it past whoever is driving Ukraine's campaign, though. To be honest, I wouldn't put anything past "our side" (sadly) - up to and including the use of nuclear weapons. Just as the left in our own country has demonstrated that they will do anything and everything to cheat and win in our elections, so I also believe that "our side" will do anything to stop Russia from winning in Ukraine. That's just how I see it, unfortunately, as the comedy sketch so aptly put it, "Hans, are we the baddies?" - answer is, as far as I can tell, "yes, yes we are".

p.s. Not sure why we are suddenly talking about a ship that sank 47 years ago. Is World War III no longer a priority? The early, raw news and tips on the looming war is what first drew me to this website. It's one of the only places where I could get the news unfiltered and raw (and, sometimes wrong, but that's to be expected). I have nothing against remembering fallen brothers, and I'm sorry for the loss of the Edmund Fitzgerald. I used to live on Lake Superior myself. It's just that I feel like there is all this urgent stuff happening NOW, why are we suddenly focusing on history? It seems a little odd, that's all. Did WWIII take a vacation?
# Last point firstcarlireland34@gmail.com 2022-11-10 13:45
I assume that in between major news events, Hal uses fillers to allow ad hoc discussion !
As regards flooding - a dam destruction would cause deaths, with water levels several feet deep.
I wondered about a controlled release - for example creating a 3 foot deep wave. With civilians (in basements) out of the way. The Ukraine army vehicles would largely be stopped, or permanently disabled. Allowing russian troops to capture them without fighting.
+3 # Interesting ideaTigerTiger 2022-11-10 15:09
I don't know the terrain or logistics of "flooding the enemy out". I guess the coming days will answer all the questions anyway. We can surmise all we like, but usually things are happening in the background that we know nothing about, and when the big things happen, they will most likely be a total surprise to people like us.

I'm trying to step back from it all, everything is just too depressing right now, it's like never ending litany of bad news. Stolen elections, "most people" in the country feel that we're going in the wrong direction, but then we have an election, and nothing changes. That doesn't feel right, I'm sure a lot of people are having the same feeling. And the constant push for war, and everything just seems so dark. I guess this is where that "faith" thing comes into play, am I right? Have faith. It'll all work out.

These are scary times, but we gotta have faith. Otherwise what else is there? Just a lot of negativity and moping around. Either way, this is no fun at all. I'd like to get off, but we seem to have entered a timeline that really sucks, at least for the time being.

On a different note, I think Hal should really do more to curate this forum. It's subscription only, which should mean that it's only people who are generally positive and on the same page. But there are obviously people here who do nothing but downvote perfectly valid discussion, and others who try to dilute the conversation with nonsense posts, others who post long reams (and then one of their buddies replies, quoting the whole damn thing for no good reason and just add "cool" - it's obviously an attempt at forum sliding). You can look that up, but here's one description.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21165439

Hal, if you care about your site, you need to get on top of this. Yes, free speech is great, but not when it's bad actors who are coming in to disrupt and turn real people off from being here. You are a relevant news source, this is demonstrated by the trolls starting to make themselves felt here. You can't just let them take over, because otherwise your site and discussions will become a barren wasteland. This is what the shills want - they come to conservative forums and try to make it an unpleasant place to be. They post antisemitic, racist, forum sliding, nonsense posts, anything to degrade the quality of the discussion and stop real people like us from being able to talk in peace. If you care, please curate it a bit more, and kick out the people who are trying to game your site. I've been doing this for over 25 years, I'm not a neophyte. If you want to have further discussions about it then I am open to advising you offline, you know how to contact me I'm sure. You have to do something, because people notice the nonsense and downvotes, I know you said you don't care but we, the people who use your site, do care. The interaction is why we come here, and there are bad actors trying to disrupt that.
+4 # Mapcarlireland34@gmail.com 2022-11-10 15:31
https://warnews247.gr/giati-i-chersona-echei-ypsisto-stratigiko-rolo-gia-ti-rosia-i-moscha-tha-anagkastei-na-epistrepsei/
Shows Kherson is in a river basin near coast ie sea level.
So if it were possible for a controlled release of water from dams - it would stop the Ukraine army. But damage electricity, water and sewerage systems.
This is such an old world war tactic - I would love to see it work !

I agree with your saying it is a depressing slow train wreck of the world economy.
I am retired - what amazes me is the likes of Pelosi, Biden choosing to spend their little time left on crazy, unrealizable political goals.
+6 # SECURE YOUR PFD AND HEAD FOR THE LIFEBOATS!Plowboy 2022-11-10 12:43
Very relevant gistory. Our nation is listing badly and taking on water. Apparently we have not been able to do enough to secure our elections to enable us to take back control of our country, i.e. the pumps have now failed and it appears that we will break up in 2023?
+2 # RE: SECURE YOUR PFD AND HEAD FOR THE LIFEBOATS!Falcon9h 2022-11-10 13:34
That's about it. When the house and senate get stolen-and they will-that'll be it, the plunge to the bottom.
If you're a young person, jump ship and get the hell out of here.. Central America? Iceland? Mexico? Where do you go?
+1 # Stay and help fix itTigerTiger 2022-11-10 13:39
How about don't leave, but stay and help fix what's broken. Nothing will improve if people just nope out and leave the country. That's a losing strategy for sure. What if George Washington had said "oh well, looks like the British have the best and strongest army and navy, they've never been defeated, we should just go somewhere else"?

We stay, and fight. How we fight is not fully obvious just yet, but I think as things get worse (which they will, if the Dems remain in power, which it seems they have, largely), then things will slowly start to dawn on the majority of the population who are currently asleep, anesthetized by media and sportsball. Eventually the fraud and corruption will get so bad, that even ordinary people will be able to see it. Ironically, the Dems trying to win "all the time" will be the cause of their own demise, since their winning means their policies being in control, and we have seen what that means for the country and the world. It's poison. Eventually people will start to see that, and wake up. But we need to stick around and not lose hope, or heart.
-1 # Maybe, maybe notTigerTiger 2022-11-10 13:27
My hope is that as the fraud gets more pronounced, as more and more people "wake up" and realize that the election results don't seem to really reflect what people are feeling in this country, then things might start to change.

Here's the thing: As we have witnessed, Democrat policies are poison to everything they touch. So, this is actually to our benefit in the long run, because the longer the Democrats maintain control, the worse things will get. Until it starts to hit "normal" people in their everyday lives, though, nothing much will happen. It's starting to happen, I think a lot of people switched their vote from D to R because of the tanking economy, inflation, woke gender school policies, driving headlong into WWIII etc. So people are starting to wake up. Unfortunately, it's not enough (yet) to overcome the rampant fraud that the Dems have a lock on in many of the key areas. But as it gets worse, the fraud will become more apparent to everybody.

So paradoxically, maybe things have to get a bit worse still before they can get better. People have to see, and eventually it will get so bad that even the corrupt media won't be able to hide it. The more people turn away from the Dems, the more blatant the fraud will need to be, until eventually we may start to see the mass street demonstrations that we see in other countries. The problem is, the USA is strong enough that we have a ways to fall before we get to that point. We may be there soon, though, if things continue the way they have been, which seems to be the case given how this "election" seems to have turned out.

The funny thing is, the Dems probably think they have won, they are probably delighted and dancing, thinking they put another one over on us. But what they don't realize is that they are simply tying another turn in their own noose, because the longer they remain in power, the worse things will get. And eventually the people will see, and they will do something about it.
# RE: Maybe, maybe notFalcon9h 2022-11-10 20:34
I'll be gone by then, I'm in my late 60's so it's a moot point. Haven't seen the Pa. freak show results, have you? Hal was right-people are too stupid to wake up, the engineered dumbing down is too far gone. Things are gonna get a LOT worse and in my lifetime I don't see them getting better. The marxists have dug in deeper... no, my friends, I hate to be a downer but this is gonna be a communist police state and those of us on the right-dissidents-will get disappeared or warehoused.

https://gizmodo.com/how-the-soviets-used-their-own-twisted-version-of-psych-5940212
# AwesomeCRS 2022-11-10 12:42
Well done, Hal!
+3 # John Robert Mallernee, KB3KWS, in Vernal, Utahwritesong 2022-11-10 12:32
HAPPY 247th BIRTHDAY to our UNITED STATES MARINE CORPS, organized in a tavern on 10 November 1775 ! ! !
# John Robert Mallernee, KB3KWS, in Vernal, Utahwritesong 2022-11-10 12:45
This response removed by the author.
+5 # RE: 47 Years Ago today: The Wreck of the Edmund FitzgeraldGunner 2022-11-10 12:26
Truly sad just like America right NOW my friends. We are in such EXTREME PERIL seriously.
+8 # Thank you Hal.Doug Brown 2022-11-10 12:18
The great lakes are American and Canadian,
treasures.
Remember this song so well.
Gordon Lightfoot, though Canadian, is as
fiercely original as Poe, Thoreau or
Walt Whitman.
This song is penetrating and haunting.
+6 # Ore Boat WorkGregFoust 2022-11-10 12:17
Frome 1980 to 1983, I did some electrical preventative maintance on the Charles E. Wilson ore boat locked in ice in the harbor of Muskegeon, MI each January. It was cold work but I gained a great deal of respect for these men that 10 months out of the year, sailed the great lakes. Hence this day is a special day for me because of my work history.
+1 # The Charles E Wilson389rivka@gmail.com 2022-11-10 12:36
Thanks for your post.
We follow this vessel online as the John J Boland along with our favorite the Charles Barker. We got a chance to see the Barker enter the harbor to unload in Muskegon MI. Massive!

BTW, two of our grandsons do similar work as you on Coast Guard vessels coming into Seward, Alaska. Adventure of a lifetime for two young men!
+1 # Power of Lake Superior389rivka@gmail.com 2022-11-10 12:02
It was estimated waves as high as 26 feet tossed the EF but the Big Lake has waves on record of over 29 feet. Living off the shore of Lake Michigan, I’m very aware of the force and destruction these beautiful lakes can display.

The links are images of that power…

https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=ALiCzsaaNLYJGEHy8iRZffFr9-8DjjR4Lw:1668113642795&source=univ&tbm=isch&q=storm+images+on+lake+superior&hl=en-us&client=safari&fir=n7oHmD2ER37j2M%252CNR16KD0DcDADBM%252C_%253Bh949k9tctmPWcM%252Cgk66_wvcYe5TgM%252C_%253BXLNJ4OaLq8JZGM%252CZGUxlh11Z_UucM%252C_%253BNIAyg-AdVCOzPM%252CbV2If5uG6KyXCM%252C_%253BfWofdeFzsuUwiM%252CjJz1kapVOE3qFM%252C_%253B_PZnNeYHRDg4_M%252CK8XA8PEStmytSM%252C_%253BSUdvg48yvFAUpM%252Cd9sCIyImKf9_IM%252C_%253B3WoQUBplyakf9M%252CXGIWgFBFTsFVZM%252C_%253BnQ171tsuI1EfpM%252CFuqEIcrjAEhZYM%252C_%253B5UaZ920XJxc3sM%252CCInMd__sspeIhM%252C_&usg=AI4_-kTTu8FdMlwfUqYxfTtvNYM1veWouA&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiZuf7Iv6T7AhV3jIkEHaW6BoYQ7Al6BAgDEE8&biw=1121&bih=1294&dpr=2

*****
https://www.mlive.com/weather/2022/10/massive-waves-topping-15-feet-smash-into-lake-michigan-lighthouses.html
+2 # When these monster storms hitJessiebeaner 2022-11-10 14:53
It is breathtaking and terrifying, and impossible to decide whether you are witnessing the majesty of GOD or the rage of the devil. I have stood on the shores of this lake many times one of these storms blew in…….it draws you in and scares you half to death…..like the storms that roll through Glacier Park in Montana. Reading this and listening to Lightfoot brought tears to my eyes. Thanks Hal, for honoring those men.
+1 # RE: When these monster storms hitFalcon9h 2022-11-10 20:50
Lake Superior waves=majesty of God.
U.S. politics=rage of the devil.
-1 # Comments……worth the time to readJessiebeaner 2022-11-10 15:09
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vST6hVRj2A
+1 # Car ferry BnB389rivka@gmail.com 2022-11-10 12:28
A trip on an ore freighter has been on my hubby’s bucket list for a long time.
I couldn’t arrange that but I did surprise him with an overnight stay on the SS City of Milwaukee which is berthed In Manistee MI.

From wiki..
“ SS City of Milwaukee is a Great Lakes railroad car ferry that once plied Lake Michigan, often between Muskegon, Michigan and Milwaukee, Wisconsin. She was built in 1931 for the Grand Trunk Milwaukee Car Ferry Company and is the only pre-1940s ship of this type to survive. She now serves as a museum ship, bed and breakfast, and event venue on the waterfront of Manistee Lake in Manistee, Michigan. She was designated a National Historic Landmark in 1990.[2]”
***
Berthed alongside a retired Coast Guard vessel, it was a memorable time. A surprise thunderstorm overnight brought memories of the Wreck of the Edmund to mind. The link includes a short drone video of the two vessels and booking info.

https://www.carferry.com/
# Great songjoe@tittiger.com 2022-11-10 11:48
.
I have always loved this song.
Thanks.
+9 # .Haywardus 2022-11-10 11:41
I used to work at the dock that loaded the Edmund in Superior, WI. In 2007, I sat with the shiploader who loaded the ore on the ship for its last journey. He said that he asked the first mate if they really wanted to risk the trip, trying to talk them out of it. He said they were determined to leave. There was some regret in his voice as he shared it with me.
+1 # RE: .Gunner 2022-11-10 12:29
Wow so, so SAD and unnecessary huh
-5 # I haven't read it yetmeanize1962 2022-11-10 11:39
Wow there's so much information here to read you got to have a college education by the time you're done a lot of effort a lot of investigative journalism here but the reason I'm writing this ahead of time is I noticed when Russia's retreating Russia surrendering Russia's getting humiliated just having any articles on here at all I think Russia and Putin is Mr Turner's hero crime fighter against crime I think Mr putin is a superhero to Mr Turner that's okay but there should be articles on here about Russia's retreating Russia's regrouping we have to submit the facts the facts are this generation of Russian soldiers can't fight your way out of a paper bag you crazy don't have no great Navy this should be like taking candy from the baby for the Russians Ukraine and there must be multiple reasons we have to face it in our hearts and start talking about the tragics mistakes of Russia's military and I believe Mr Turner you're missing out on your calling you were security and when you see the West one like they are you should be helping Russia by explaining what they did wrong what they should do right
+7 # Man, that's a good songChappyusa1 2022-11-10 11:14
Seeing the pictures and listening to the song, kind makes you think of those guys lost and of their families.

Hal this was cool you did this.
+3 # Edmond Fitzgeraldboxer7 2022-11-10 11:12
My girlfriend has lived in Northern Wisconsin her whole life. Her local community had family on that ship. She had former classmates on that ship. This is much more than just another ship wreck up here. People may not realize it but Lake Superior is the largest fresh water lake in the world. When things get stormy, up here, it's not uncommon to see fifty foot waves out in the lake. It's a very treacherous lake and when the wind starts to blow you'd better get off that water immediately.
+2 # Thank youA706 2022-11-10 11:09
Hal, Thank you for posting this. I've read all the books on the Fitz., Stonehouse and Schumaker my favorites.
Recommend William Ratigan's Great Lakes Shipwrecks and Survivals and Mary Frances Doner's The Salvager - The life of Captian Reid on the Great Lakes.
Both hard to put down Great Lakes True Stories.
+1 # IT''S CALLED FORTITUDE!Plowboy 2022-11-10 12:47
Our predecessors had great fortitude! We are now being tested.
+7 # RE: 47 Years Ago today: The Wreck of the Edmund FitzgeraldAngus 2022-11-10 11:01
I grew up listening to that song, as my parents often played it. I was 13 when it sank, and knew nothing of it, but knew the song well. Though I grew up on Zeppelin, Black Sabbath and Pink Floyd, when I would randomly hear that song, it always intrigued me, as I loved songs with a story in them. As an adult, I became more intrigued by the story behind this sad song, and learned more about it, comparing it to the saga depicted in The Perfect Storm. That was back when men has some serious balls, and courage of lions. Great story, great song. Thanks Hal.
-6 # DisplacementJohn Jones 2022-11-10 10:58
Displacement is calculated as the shortest distance between starting and final point which prefers straight-line path over curved paths.

Suppose a body is moving in two different directions x and y then Resultant Displacement will be

displacement formula

It gives the shortcut paths for the given original paths.

Displacement Formula 2

Displacement in terms of velocity

displacement in terms acceleration

Here,

u = Initial velocity

v = final velocity

a = acceleration

t = time taken.

 

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